Jordan Brown Decertification Hearing Goes To Common Pleas Court

By Jon Greiner

NEW CASTLE (KDKA) — State Superior Court has remanded Jordan Brown’s decertification hearing back to Common Pleas Court.

A Lawrence County judge had ruled Brown, 11 at the time of his arrest for the murder of his father’s girlfriend, should be tried as an adult.

The Superior Court had questions about whether Brown’s Fifth Amendment rights to self incrimination had been violated during an interview with a psychiatrist.

Brown’s attorney, David Acker of New Castle told KDKA-TV: “I’m happy about the decision. It’s what we wanted.”

Acker believes another hearing may be held within just a few weeks that will determine whether Brown will be tried as a juvenile or as an adult.

Brown is accused of killing 26-year-old Kenzie Houk, his father’s fiancée back in February of 2009 in New Beaver Township.

Appeal Hearing Held In Jordan Brown Case

More Local News
More Lawrence County News


One Comment

  1. Ryan says:

    Never let this murderer out on the streets ever again.

  2. TAD says:

    this is one evil little dude, his eyes are that of a cold hearted killer. what he did is that of a cold calculated adult. he should be treated as such

    1. phycho says:


  3. blaney says:

    How do you know he is a murderer? The media is the one who has convicted this boy without a trial.

  4. Sara Sams says:

    Jordans eyes dont look like a murder he looks like he has been crying. He needs to be charged as a Juvenile not an adult if he did do it. The dads girlfriend got around town if you know what I mean.she was a cruel person . so this wasnt her child and she was not nice to him. I say take a look at his father for some answers.. lawrence county and the Pa. State Police are not good Investagators. I know this from when my brother was killed in the City of New Castle ten yrs ago.They did not even question the girlfriend he had at the time..

  5. J.Lowe says:

    He’s a child and his brain is not fully developed enough to be responsible for his actions.Those who abandon the thought of him being a child still yet should all rot in Hell. And i don’t care about anyone elses comments on mine. Self appointed Godly types who judge this child are sick people. He’s young enough to be rehabilitated. The father should be in jail not him.The boy should be getting help, not behind bars.The State of Pa. is one sick, corrupt place.

  6. city of sadness says:

    Candycanes I agree he is the devil, but you will be deemed a racist if you say that and run out of town…lets talk about something good like the mayor getting divorced, and if its true he got a PITT cheerleader pregnant….I hear it is..

  7. Dan says:

    people like him don’t get better. He is a sick murderer. He could sit on the therapists couch for years and then go murder again. Crying, ha. He is gloating about what he did. He has no remorse whatsoever. Life in jail for that waste of flesh.

  8. Terik Ororke says:

    If those who are eleven years old can be treated as adults, then everything an e,eleven year old is involved in should be an adult matter — like driving, drinking, deciding to get married and the like. Let us not resort to Medieval tendencies –those who are 11 are babies.

    1. Dallas says:

      Trerik, that is a foolish analogy. Driving, marriage, and voting are rights.

      There is never a RIGHT …at any age to murder someone.

    2. hanover pa says:

      i agree

  9. Leb says:

    Sorry, but this so called child will kill again, especially if he gets away with it. He shows no remorse, and he has admitted he did it. Don’t be fooled by the age, there are a lot of 11 year olds out there who talk about killing their parents or other kids, and they are dead serious. 11 is no longer a child, there are 11 year olds having sex in the back of school buses, flirting with 20 year old men on the internet and there are plenty that are capable of murder and know what they are doing. This is one of them. He needs to learn he can not get away with this. What the baby his father’s girlfriend not a child? To me, that baby was more a child then this monster.

    1. OOOOHHH NOOOO says:

      It is totally evident this kid is a product of bad parenting the dad who lets his kid have a gun neglects his kid when he was crying out for attention and in need of a severe counselling and if anything this kid should be in a mental institution cause he has serious emotional problems and the dad should go to jail for letting his kid have a gun .

      1. Dallas says:

        This kid’s dad didn’t murder anyone. And please get real…….millions of children are around hunting guns and don’t become a cold blooded murderer. Quit trying to blame someone else instead of the one who did the crime. It is offensive to the victims. The kid should go to prison for life because he is the one that USED that gun to murder people with. No one is to blame for these deaths except the one who pulled the trigger.

        Crying out for attention? Oh please. By murdering a woman and the baby she carried? That is beyond ridiculous. That is not crying out for attention but having full intentions of ending life!

        The doctors have said this boy cant be treated or rehabilitate. He is a danger to society. What is going to happen when he gets grown and gets insanely jealous of his girlfriend or wife?

      2. Dan says:

        Funny I saw a cops kid kill himself and the dad was charged…this kid took dads gun and shot the girlfriend…..Whats the difference? Dad should be cant have it both ways? Being a cop or firefighter doesnt afford you less rights

  10. Richard says:

    For appropriate justice to be done he should be tried as an adult and, if found guilty of premeditated murder, executed like any other murderer. Age should not matter in this case as an eleven year old certainly should know right from wrong. Unfortunately, if tried as an adult and found guilty taxpayers will pay to support this worthless criminal the rest of his life!

    1. tommiano says:

      really richard,lol you seriously want to execute an 11 year old boy?!i think maybe you should be strapped to the chair and lit up!

  11. Dallas says:

    That is exactly what the bleeding hearts in our society are doing. They don’t sit back and really look at the issue and the issue is already at a very young age these particular kids are capable of murdering at will. Already they are takers of life.

    They scare me more than someone that doesn’t murder until they are adults.

    These kids are rare and we cannot treat them like the rest of the children in the juvenile justice system. They don’t belong there. They are in a league all of their own and must be treated differently. We cant just let them kill as many people as they want to and give them little or no time and then dump them right back out in society to deal with.

    Protect the children from THEM and others in society. These children have crossed over to the dark side. We cannot sacrifice the safety of all to protect a minute few who do such horrendous acts.

  12. abram says:

    Here we go again, a young boy, eleven when jailed and imprisoned for over two years has to suffer angst again, over a decertification hearing and a trial by media. The mob wants blood of an eleven year old (at the time of the crime), and they don’t care if the real killer stays on the loose. Jordan shouldn’t even be tried, the case should be dismissed for violations of his constitutional rights 4th, 5th, 6th & 14th amendments or acquitted for lack of evidence. If he is tried then certainly there cannot be a fair trial Pennsylvania.

    1. Tommy Truth says:

      hes white…that means he has no rights!

  13. abram says:

    In th last few years Pennsylvania has granted, bail for teens who beat an immigrant to death, , bail for an adult who shot a man in the back then turned him over and shot him in the throat,, bail for an adult who had a PFA (protection from abuse) filed against him, who was not allowed to have a firearm, who kidnapped Tina and threatened her with a shotgun. On release he went right back to her home – took her into the woods and shot her with a shotgun and then himself.

  14. abram says: However the state of Pennsylvania sees fit on flimsy evidence and a poor investigation to jail an eleven year old boy for over two years without bail. Still no trial. The state is sick here – not Jordan.

  15. abram says:

    In th last few years Pennsylvania has granted, bail for teens who beat an immigrant to death, bail for an adult who shot a man in the back then turned him over and shot him in the throat, bail for an adult who had a PFA (protection from abuse) filed against him, who was not allowed to have a firearm, who kidnapped Tina and threatened her with a shotgun. On release he went right back to her home – took her into the woods and shot her with a shotgun and then himself.

  16. abram says: However the state of Pennsylvania sees fit on flimsy evidence and a poor investigation to jail an eleven year old boy for over two years without bail. Still no trial. The state is sick here – not Jordan.

  17. abram says:

    Sorry for the convoluted posts but CBS wouldn’t allow the post in one piece.

    Ignore post 2 and the order will be correct.
    Links wouldn’t post either so I posted them separate.

  18. Kevin says:

    Apparently, no one commenting (or very few) have ever heard the concept of “Innocent until proven guilty.”
    Jordan is, at this point, accused. Accused is not convicted. As I read the comments, I am appalled. You do realize that you are speaking of an 11-year-old? No matter how you slice it, he is a CHILD. He is not an adult, he’s not a little adult, he is a child. Does no one remember being a child? Some of the things that come to mind are, impulsive, confused, foolish, irrational, to name a few.
    What does this say about us, as a society that we are so willing to dispose of an 11-year-old as so much trash? That is what is scary.
    Another thing that comes to mind with all the religious slant and supposed “Christians” crying for this child’s blood… As you judge, so shall you be judged.

    1. Dallas says:

      Yes, I do remember very well being a child of 11 and I can assure you I wasnt pointing a laoded shotgun at the head of a pregnant woman and trying to blow her head off or harm anyone else for that matter. And I sure knew right from wrong though. Knew that way before the age of 11.

      Yeah he is a child but her sure had a good aim didn’t he?

      II cant begin to count the children I have known throughout my lifetime but I have never once known any of them to be stone cold murders. So what does being a child have to do with it? Are the victims somehow less dead or something?

      Making the defendant sound like the typical 11 year old is offensive to millions of other children who do not harm anyone. Trying to compare the defendant with other children is ridiculous. He isnt just a child……..he is accused of double MURDER!

      Well If I intentionally harmed someone or murdered them II certainly expect to be judged for the evil act I have done.

      Please…….IUPG is only meant for the jurors and the presiding Judge who will sit on his case. The public at large has a right to their entitled opinions before, during and after the trial..

    1. Dallas says:

      Isn’t this just a blog based on someone’s opinion?

      Why am Ito believe that site anymore than others?

      I saw the same arguments and excuses put forth in the 8 year old boy’s case in Arizona when he shot two men to death in cold blood.

      1. dandailey says:

        No Dallas, it is not just my unsubstantiated opinion–The postings about Jordan Brown on the Wandervogel Diary present balanced judgment based on detailed knowledge of all the evidence in the case. I have been provided access by Chris Brown to everything he and Jordan’s attorneys know, and I can state unequivocally that Jordan Brown is innocent and the authorities in PA are guilty of a shameless miscarriage of justice–from the beginning, all for political gain.

        Wake up, Pennsylvanians! One of your children could be next.

        Dan Dailey

  19. abram says:

    Check the sites and decide for yourself. Melissa on justice4juveniles seems quite fair and objective to me.

    The 8 year old what is his name?
    Are there any pictures of him and has he gone to trial?

    1. Dallas says:

      I know his name but would rather not write it. At one time there was a court website that had a lot of his information. I do not know if it exist any longer.

      He was sent to a secure locked treatment facility and can remain there until the age of 18 or longer if he is still deemed to be a danger to society after the age of 18. The medical experts do not think he will be amenable to treatment.

      He plead guilty. He shot one of the victims 5 times and the other victim 6 times. I imagine this boy is an anti-social child which cannot be treated to become a productive member of society. He too showed absolutely no remorse and for a long time denied that he had committed both murders..

      I have seen photos of the AZ child but a lot of them were taken down so I don’t know if any exist on the net now.

      I am sure Melessa is fair but she is getting her information from one side only…the defense. Until both sides of the story are told the truth will never be known. That is why we have trials and DAs and defense attorneys.,

      1. abram says:

        Here is Melissa’s articles. It provides the information without all the conjectures.

  20. Dallas says:


    Well it certainly looks like other blog sites I have seen.

    Lots of “I”s in the opinions.

  21. abram says:

    Dan Dailey is a conscientious, compassionate man who makes good points which warrant consideration.

    Melissa is not a friend of the family nor does she have contact with them. She is fighting to maintain everyones rights through Jordan.

    Justice4juveniles is open to all evidence and information it can gather but they can only go by what is offered or out there.

    What is disturbing is the 5 hour investigation, the lack of evidence and the nature of the evidence they have against Jordan. He has been incarcerated without bail for over two years while much worse have been granted bail. I don’t see the incarceration being a net benefit to him unless his home situation was horribly afoul. His case could be dismissed or acquitted or he may be found not guilty. The danger to the public of Jordan out on bail cannot be more than from the other culprits who were granted bail which I mentioned earlier, and the same for flight risk. Why do we risk turning a boy into a harden personality who if and when finally released for reasons mentioned may have more issues than when he entered?

    Jordan has his name and photo published all over the media while for the eight year old nothing is to be found – name – photo – details and evidence. You don’t even dare mention his name even though you know it. I’ve only seen one site with comments, for the 8 year old, and they are nothing like the multitude of sites with quick judgments and nasty comments toward Jordan. Unless some clear evidence to the contrary is made available I will continue to believe Jordan is innocent and that Pennsylvania does not have a winnable case. Regardless the system was more than cruel and the system has violated or denied Jordan a number of his constitutional rights.

    1. Dallas says:

      Like I said until ALL the information is known in this case no one can say with any certainty Jordan is innocent or guilty. It is my opinion that he is guilty. I will wait for all the facts to come forth…….and not base it on partial knowledge and surely not based on the words of what a defense attorney has said. Defense attorneys have a knack of trying to diminish the evidence. That is their jobs.

      I wouldn’t think that murdering two people would be charges where bail would be granted. Jordan certainly isn’t the only defendant who has had to wait incarcerated a long time waiting for their case to come to trial.

      The reason that Jordan’s name and photo was shown in the media is PA they already has a law on the books that states anyone his age is to be tried as an adult if they commit homicide and we have two homicides in this case.

      I don’t believe in conspiracy theories. I don’t believe a DA would railroad a child on a double murder charge.

      Oh so many had blogs galore going ninety to nothing on the AZ case too. Same excuses and so convinced that the DA was the bad guy and the kid was innocent. Well he wasnt innocent. He was a cold blooded double murderer.

      I would think any DA would much rather the defendant be a burly ugly 200 pound, 6 foot, brute than a snotty nosed kid ,but unfortunately a DA doesn’t get to pick the ages of the murderers……The DA just has to try and see that justice is done for the victims who lost their lives neeedlessly….no matter how young or old the defendant happens to be..

  22. abram says:

    From your answer I’ll guess you are a pessimist and a negative person, Dallas, or you are on the government payroll.

    Jordan is, or was eleven, most are not that young when incarcerated and waiting for trial. The law is 180 days to trial if incarcerated and a year if not. Jordan was incarcerated for over two years.

    Like you said all the evidence is not in. Nevertheless you prefer to believe his guilt rather than his innocence or to be neutral. It is as they say, putting the cart before the horse. “I will wait for all the facts to come forth…….” and what Dallas? Change your mind and decide he is innocent. You sure can’t change your mind and decide he is guilty because you already believe that. Which facts caused you to form the opinion you have?

    I wouldn’t think that because of a bad temper shooting someone with a shotgun in the back and then rolling them over to shoot them in the neck would warrant a grant of bail either and he was “a burly ugly 200 pound, 6 foot, brute” or not far from it. This happened in Pennsylvania.

    If they didn’t railroad him then they sure were lazy. There are plenty of innocent people in jail; we can see that from the ones that are released because of new evidence that clears them. The DA is an elected official and he or she may be prone to errors while performing for the electorate. Considering there definitely are other suspects a five hour investigation and arrest based on a coerced statement from a seven year old, a minuscule particle of gun residue (many of rural PA would probably test positive) and other shallow evidence like only a small fraction of the pellets of a full bore shotgun shell were found which points to a hand gun, does not constitute due diligence or a prosecution acting responsibly. Sorry but I think they fell down on the job and I don’t have the faith in them that you do and I certainly wouldn’t treat a child the way that they have.

    Dallas, considering the publicity and the time that has passed, do you think Jordan can have a fair trial in Pennsylvania?
    What well become of Jordan if he is found innocent? Do you think he can fit back into his school and community? Do you think he would be the same innocent boy that went in?

    Of the ninety to none blogs was the eight year old’s name public? Was his picture public?

  23. abram says:

    Sorry Dallas I wasn’t going to post that first line, but it happened and I apologize for it.

  24. Dallas says:

    It isn’t the DA that is slowing this case down.

    It is the defense attorney.

    “Under Pennsylvania law, in order to move the case Brown’s attorneys must prove he would be more “amenable” to rehabilitation in the juvenile system.”

  25. Dallas says:

    Abram, it doesn’t really matter if you put that first line in or not. You are way off base. I am a very optimistic person but I also am a realist.

    That is why I have a lot of faith in youths because only a teeny tiny minority ever do something this horrid. It is those vast amount of children who harm no one that I support..and not the ones who do.

    I don’t automatically assume that because the murderer is young that he is innocent.

    I don’t assume either that kids who murder are remotely like the typical children who do not murder. I find it very offensive when the vast majority of children are compared right along with a child who has murdered…as if to say that all children are the same when that is a bunch of hogwash..

    I don’t know what you mean by saying that the AZ boy’s name was not known. Good grief, the Apache County courthouse set up an on line website where everything was shown. Including HIS NAME and case number. His photo was out there. how in the heck do you think I saw them if it wasnt available on the net?

    The hold up in this case is because by law Jordan is suppose to be tried as an adult for the crimes charged. It is the the defense that is holding up the trial by trying to have it moved to juvenile court.

    Why do you accuse them of being lazy? The AZ LE also interviewed CR for an hour and arrested him . They were correct… he was guilty as the sins he committed..

    We are talking about the heinous murders of a mother AND the child she carried..

    Of course he can get a fair trial. He certainly isn’t the only child murderer who has been discussed at length by the public before trial.. Unfortunately in the recent years we are seeing more and more youthful killer cases in the news who have murdered their parents, siblings or someone they knew..

    We will have to wait and see what happens. Even though I do believe he was very jealous of Kenzie, and the new baby coming, and most likely did this, …I do want it proved BARD in a court of law.

    We will have to wait until the verdict to start speculating on what will happen after then.

    1. abram says:

      Believing guilt , innocence or being neutral, have nothing to do with whether one is a realist or not. Taking the more harmful side as opposed to the side which does the least harm does indicate something about character.

      I have not seen any of those sites for the 8 year old. If his name and picture were so public why do you not mention his name here? When was his trial?

      Jordan may be just like the children you have so much faith in but as a result of either and or; a botched investigation, a frame by the most likely suspect (Adam Harvey), a rush to conclude and inexperience, Jordan is charged and incarcerated and not likely to come out that way. We could prevent this if we are more civil, to youth especially, to begin with. That wonderful youthful characteristic will probably not be there when this is all over. If and when guilt is established then treat him accordingly. That way we won’t have ruined a young life.

      Jordan is not supposed be tried as an adult. He was eleven and that is not an adult. The defence is attempting to have him tried in the proper court and if it were not for the improper reasoning by the judge that is were he would have gone. It is the prosecution that is in effect causing delay.

      Heinous murders is true, but the investigators for one reason or another have not done everything they could have done to determine who the real killer was. Among other things I call that lazy. When Jordan is acquitted, dismissed or found innocent then where will the real killer be and how is that justice for Kenzie, her daughters, her parents and everyone else involved? When this is over; Jordan won’t be the youthful characteristic we all admire in youth and the killer will still be out there.

      1. Dallas says:

        That is a whole lot of assuming that Jordan is going to be found innocent. First innocence is never declared even if there was a Not Guilty verdict. But you are entitled to assume anything you want but then so are others who do not agree with you.

        I think we probably know of cases ourselves that ended in a Not Guilty where were we were sure the defendant had gotten away with murder.sometimes double murder.

        I am sorry that you have not seen any of those sites that disclose CRs name and photos. They certainly were there when the case was unfolding. But that is not my problem if you cant find them.. I kept up with that case from the day it happened and it was readily available to all who did.

        No, you are wrong. The law very clearly states in PA that Jordan Brown is to be tried as an adult. That is what all the fuss is about……trying to get the Judge to send it to juvenile court instead. So please don’t tell me that JB isn’t suppose to be tried as an adult because ,yes, he is.

        I don’t believe for one second Jordan is like the millions of other children who are not accused of double murder.

        I just think it is just easier for some to try to blame someone else for the crime when the accused murderer is a child. Blame the police. Blame the DA. Its a conspiracy…yada, yada, yada..

        I think he did it and I will give the DA a chance to prove it BARD at trial where ti is suppose to be proved..

      2. abram says:

        What ifs are not assumptions.
        If I am to err I’ll err on the side of least harm not the other way around. Neither does it benefit society for the justice system to be otherwise.
        To suspect someone is not to blame them, it is to leave them open to further investigation.

        Innocence is declared if the real criminal is captured and found guilty. Investigators have not done all they could have to gather evidence and make a case. That is negligence and a danger to society.

        Judge has misinterpreted the law which in effect has caused delays.

  26. Sasha says:

    From the information i gathered, I think that he JORDAN should be tried as an adult….he doesnt look like he’s crying. HE looks like satan is in him. I do believe innocent until proven guilty but im not in court so i dont have to go by that rule…..i think he planned and kiilled that woman and the sad part is…that baby she was carrying will never get to walk, talk or experience what life is… i feel sad for her family…..i feel sad for jordan’s family because they are gonna be known as the family withthe killer child… ctfu

  27. Dallas says:


    How do you know what police have investigated since this case began? How would you be privy to such confidential information? Just because an arrest has been made never stops the investigation. The police don’t just close the doors and put a sign on the door that says “gone fishing” once an arrest has been made. The investigation is just beginning at the time of arrest. Good grief, don’t you keep up with other cases and know how the investigations work? I have seen them continue to investigate the case and gather evidence right up to trial time.

    The police must prepare the evidence for the DA to take to trial and that doesn’t happen overnight or even in a few months. So to say they haven’t investigated like they should …..has no basis when you nor I really have any clue what their ongoing investigation has uncovered.

    The Judge has not misinterpreted the law. Did the Pa. Supreme Court intervene and strike down the Judge’s ruling that Brown will be tried as an adult? NO, they did not overturn his decision. In fact they sent it bank to HIM to reconsider and he still can rule Brown can be tried as an adult without considering that admitting guilt is better to show that the defendant can be rehabilitated.

    The very heinous and premeditated nature of the double homicides should convince the Judge this needs to be handled in adult court and not where Brown gets a pat on the head and is dumped back into society in 5 short years.

    And what if the real criminal is already in jail?

    1. abram says:


      I feel the person who probably hated her the most was probably former boy friend Adam Harvey; who has had drug problems, who has threatened the life of Kenzie and her family by his own hand or by hire, who believed he had a daughter with Kenzie for which he paid support payments. Who then discovers he is not the biological father, who then has a PFA filed against him. It wouldn’t be normal for Adam not have bad feelings toward her, but when you threaten the lives of her and her family you have gone too far. Adam’s behaviour since the arrest of Jordan is suspicious.

      Does not the juvenile system release when he turns 21? He was 11 when arrested and incarcerated and that is 10 years.

      The Supreme Court has knocked down the main reason for the Judge Motto’s denial of decertification. If in a decision Judge Motto can’t decipher law to give valid reasons that hold up to scrutiny, then that is a misinterpretation in my eyes.

      I really hope and pray the police are continuing their investigation as you say but they missed their opportunity to gather some good evidence.

      The past is gone and difficult to correct, but the future is malleable.

      1. abram says:

        Dallas, please check this,
        Kenzie filed two PFAs against Adam Harvey and there was a previous violent incident in NC. Melissa has posted an excellent comment on it.

  28. Dallas says:

    I have read that site, Abram and about Harvey. .

    A lot of people may have a tumultuous past history with a jilted ex-boyfriend or girlfriend,, however; it does not mean the person resorts to murder. Unfortunately, threats can be made, and ROs issued There are literally many hundreds of thousands of ROs issued in the country yearly.

    While about 11,300 males lose their lives due to homicide …..the female population who lose their lives the same way is around 3,500 yearly. Now that is total murders. Only 1/3 of them were murdered by a spouse/bf or ex. Not all of them had RO against the murderer. Often times there is no RO or hint that there was a problem before the murder was committed.

    So compared to the amount of ROs issued yearly the vast majority of the one with the RO against them do not murder the person that had a RO against them or we would literally see female homicides of monumental proportion if that was the true indicator.

    I don’t believe for one second the DA would substitute a young kid as a defendant when they had a big bad brute to blame it on. That just makes no sense.

    The DA has to cringe knowing that true justice is so much harder to obtain for the victims that lost their lives when the defendant is a young kid murderer.

    I believe Jordan resented that he wasnt going to be the only child anymore. He wasnt going to be the only boy anymore either. Imo, he did not want his dad sharing any of his love and attention with Kensie, the girls or the new baby boy that would have been born shortly before the mother and baby were murdered.

    1. abram says:

      You quote statistics to minimize Adam’s potential as a suspect while you promote jealousy in an eleven year old as a reason for a murder. “So compared to the amount of ROs issued yearly the vast majority of the one with the RO against them do not murder the person that had a RO against them…”, is no different than, ‘So compared to the number of jealous children in a year the vast majority of jealous children do not murder the person they are jealous of’. In fact juveniles commit approximately one percent of the murders yearly and most of them are not because of jealousy, while a full third are committed by a partner or ex in a relationship and it is because of a combination of rage, hate, jealousy and anger. I don’t think this guy Adam could let go of Kenzie and a rage boiled to the surface when he found that the child wasn’t his and he’s being paying support all along, nor do I think he was properly investigated.

      I do not want for Jordan to be a victim of wrongful conviction and like you imply neither does anyone in the justice system or hopefully anyone at all. However no one is perfect and Angela J. Davis in a 2008 study of prosecutorial misconduct states of 11,000 cases from 1963 and 1999 they found at least 381 homicide convictions which were dismissed because prosecutors withheld exculpatory evidence or presented false evidence. That is in discovered cases of misconduct so the actual numbers would be higher and it doesn’t include police not doing a proper investigation of all suspects.

      1. abram says:

        Of all the restraining orders what percentage of the men have threatened to take out the whole family the next time they’re in town and to kill her or have her killed by his friends? I reiterate, this ex boyfriend should not have been taken of the suspect list so easily.

  29. Dallas says:

    There has to be either a violent threat made or actually done against the one who obtains the RO. So I would say all women and men who have had to obtain a RO had violent threats made against them, which could included making threats to not only harm them but their families as well..

    Adam Harvey is not aspect in this case. While some seem to think they know more than the police the simple truth is……….they don’t.

    I do see why you would wish to believe that someone else did this brutal and totally heinous crime, however; I believe that LE and the DA have the real suspect in jail. I will give them a chance to prove their case as it should be.

    There is no evidence that this Prosecutor is withholding anything…….much less ..exculpatory evidence. Did any of those cases have to do with a child murderer around this age?

    Most convictions that have been overturned were due to the lack of DNA testing or faulty eye witnesses.. With 2.5 million inmates in our prison system it shows most all of the cases held up and the Prosecutors did their jobs ethically.

    I have no reason to believe the DA in this case is unethical.. I think he has been thrown a horrible case to deal with because the defendant is a young chubby faced killer.

    Mr. Harvey would have been much more suitable to try as a defendant. I imagine if he had actually been guilty…. the DA would have gone for the death penalty. If the defendant had been an adult it certainly meets the criteria.

    BUT Mr. Harvey isn’t the one who did this whether he is an unlikable immoral person or not, imo.

    So I am not going to accuse LE……….the DA…..Harvey or anyone else when I have nothing to base that assumption on. I think it is very offensive to try and accuse others just because one wants to believe the defendant charged didn’t do it. Then suddenly everyone is accused of conspiring against the defendant. While you espouse that Brown has been falsely accused you have no qualms falsely accusing (without a factual bais) anyone connected to the case. They all cant be lying, imo.

    While I do believe that Brown should be tried as an adult based on the heinous nature of the crimes, I will respect whatever decision the Judge comes to this time.

    But justice never comes for the victims when double murderers are tried in juvenile court, imo. THe most violent offenders do not belong in juvie, imo

  30. abram says:

    test post

  31. Abram says:

    Posts aren’t going through. I’m posting paragraphs.

    Dallas, it is not what I wish to believe, it is what I believe and if facts come out as I know them then they do have the wrong person in custody and Jordan will go free as does the perpetrator. I do not accuse anyone I suspect and that is why I call Adam a suspect. He is a suspect individual who could have been cleared or incriminated by a proper investigation. His alibi he has is very weak.

    Abuse is indicated on the PFAs not violent threats. Violent threats are include in abuse but abuse is not just violent threats. Violent threats include murder but murder is not the only violent threat.

  32. abram says:

    Third paragraph of my post.

    Do you know what was in the autopsy report? If what I read is correct then it will clear Jordan. But here I know you will point out if it would clear Jordan why would the prosecution persist against an eleven year old child? Why do any of these things go wrong? They just do and that is why I mentioned the study by Angela J Davis.

    1. Dallas says:

      What part of the autopsy report clears Brown?

      You mean his defense attorney has proof that Brown can be completely exonerated but hasn’t rushed to the Governor’s office once about it? Why would he be wasting his time trying to get it thrown back to juvie if he had the evidence to prove he didn’t do this ………this very minute?

      Sorry, Abram, that just doesn’t make logical sense imo.

      1. abram says:

        Does his defense attorney have a copy of it?

  33. abram says:

    I guess it’s not such a free country after all. My last paragraph won’t post and I can only assume it’s because they won’t allow it. So in a nut shell; In the study the rate of dismissed homicide criminals is almost 3.5 percent and not the insignificant number you suggested Dallas. 11,000/381*100.

    1. Dallas says:

      I don’t recall saying they were insignificant.

      About 65% of cases are solved. Some are not solved………not because LE doesn’t know who the suspect is but lacked sufficient evidence to bring them to trial.

      I am not even sure what you are referring to actually? Are you saying out of the multiple thousands who had PRs 3.5% of them killed the person that had obtained the RO? Sorry, you have lost me.

  34. abram says:

    The only thing that caused my last post to not go through were the words prosecutorial misconduct. Imagine that.

    1. Dallas says:

      Maybe because there is no evidence in this case of any prosecutorial misconduct.

  35. abram says:

    Does anyone want a copy or a link to the study.

    1. Dallas says:

      Haven’t you already put it up one time? If not, link it again and I will read it when I have more time.

      Although studies can be faulty and slanted just like statistics are. One study will say one thing and another study about the same subject will be altogether different.

  36. Dallas says:

    If you have seen it then most assuredly the defense attorney saw it before you did.

  37. Dallas says:

    Thanks for the link. I will read it later but I think Ms. Davis may have some biases of her own since she was the past Director of the Public Defender.Service. That is often the reasons why studies really have little value.

    Angela J. Davis
    Law Professor at American University

    Washington D.C. Metro Area
    Law Practice
    Angela J. Davis’s Overview
    Current Law Professor at American University
    Professor at American University Washington College of Law
    Law Professor at AU
    Past Director at Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia

    1. abram says:

      Your welcome,
      I wonder if that would be a bias or actually more honest. She has nothing to lose by being honest and nothing to gain by being biased. On re-reading the part with the data I mentioned, I do admit it is rather unclear and I may have mis-represented what she wrote. My calculation (11,000 cases involving misconduct / 381 murderers convictions dismissed X 100) to get 3.5%. But that may be wrong as I see it now, the 381 might not have come out of the 11,000 but maybe a much bigger number because here she states from 1963 to present times – possibly the whole prison population or case load is where the 381 came out from. What is your understanding of it? My apologies if I erred on that.

      1. Dallas says:

        Sorry, I have had a very busy day and still have not had time to sit down and read the link.

        However; it seems she wants people to believe that only prosecutors are the one swho are guilty of judicial misconduct and that simply isn’t true.

        All you have to do is google disbarred defense attorneys and see they too are unethical.

        I contend though that most prosecutors and defense attorneys are both ethical and do their jobs correctly.

        As far as this case I have nothing to base anything on that this DA is an unethical man or has committed misconduct..

        Has he ever had a complaint filed against him?

  38. abram says:

    It’s I time:
    I suspect Adam, and I believe the defense and the prosecution could have done more. That’s it and no more.
    I would love to see people and the system be more considerate no matter who it is that is arrested.
    I know it was a horrible crime and I don’t approve of any violence, threats or intimidation, period.
    I would prefer a justice system based solely on rehabilitation for victim and culprit – healing.
    I believe an innocent in jail and a criminal on the loose is worse than a criminal on the loose.

    1. Dallas says:

      And respect your opinion, Abram, although I do not agree.

      We cannot paint all defendants with the same wide brush any more than we can all prosecutors or defense attorneys. The justice system is an adversarial system and it will always be.

      What about those that are not amenable to treatment? Just pat them on the head anyway and release them in a few short years? How can you rehabilitate a victim(s) who have been murdered? There are no second chances for them.

      While the thought of a hardened criminal ibeing on the loose among us is chilling to even think about knowing the carnage they could and have caused innocent victims, I don’t want an innocent person in jail.

      And I don’t have any reason to believe an innocent person IS in jail in THIS case. Imo, he is just another one of many who brutally murdered right out of the blue for his own selfish reasons and I certainly wouldn’t want a double murderer loose on our streets.

  39. abram says:

    “We cannot paint all defendants with the same wide brush any more than we can all prosecutors or defense attorneys. The justice system is an adversarial system and it will always be.”
    Neither can we close our eyes and let all that came before decide the future. We must look into every nook and cranny before we make decisions or statements that affect others.

    :What about those that are not amenable to treatment? Just pat them on the head anyway and release them in a few short years?”
    We are a product of our environment. Improve the environment to improve the product. If continue as we are nothing will change – in fact they will get worse.

    “How can you rehabilitate a victim(s) who have been murdered?”
    I am quite sure you know better about what I wrote than that. Family on both sides are the victims of a homicide.

    “While the thought of a hardened criminal ibeing on the loose among us is chilling to even think about knowing the carnage they could and have caused innocent victims,”
    Then we better make sure we capture the right person because if we wrongly prosecute a person then there is a good possibility that we have just doubled the number of harden minds.

    “And I don’t have any reason to believe an innocent person IS in jail in THIS case.”
    I suspect if the PROSECUTION put most of the citizenry in jail you still would have no reason to believe INNOCENT PEOPLE were in jail, IN ANY case.

    “I don’t want an innocent person in jail.”
    That is what I and others are trying to prevent and remedy.

  40. Dallas says:

    I am not going to belabor the issue anymore. Imo, your idyllic world is just not going to happen..

    It seems punishment for the actual deeds done means very little to you. You expect it to be some fantasy world where all hold hands and sing chants.. It seems you want to let out all the murderers out to go on their merry way if they pretend they have been rehabilitated..

    Does those included those defendants like Joesph Duncan who also at 8 years old was already raping and torturing little boys? Yeah, the mental facility tried to treat him too and quickly learned he was incurable nor could he be rehabilitated. That is why he was sent back to prison and allowed to get out in 20 years to become a serial killer. His only surviving victim has received therapy but do you honestly think Shasta’s life will ever be the same? Nonsense.

    And you are wrong once again so please quit trying to read tealeaves. I have thought many people were innocent of the crimes charged. even before the trial was held, and thank goodness a lot of the time the jury agreed.

    I do know that the majority of innocent people that have been exonerated was based on faulty eye witness testimony and the lack of DNA technology at the time and a small majority of toss cases were based on prosecutorial misconduct or ineffectual counsel.

    But that has nothing o do with this case. We don’t even know the evidence in this case. The DA has not even had a chance to prove their case BARD in front of a jury.. So until I see what the evidence truly is I am going to wait until I do. For now, I have no reason to believe this child is innocent of these charges.

    If he truly was innocent the first one that would know it would be his defense attorney and if he had exculpatory evidence he couldn’t get to the Governor’s office fast enough o make a plea to let Brown out. This has not happened. So the proof is in the puddin.

    IMO, His lawyer does know that the DA has a case against this kid, he wants it tossed to juvie because he already knows that Brown most likely is going to be found guilty and he is wanting Brown to do less time for two heinous murders..

  41. iamiam says:

    Posting not available due to a restriction of free speech.

  42. iamiam says:

    Again I must post in parts.

    I agree with your last two paragraphs with one qualifier – the defence was wanting in my view but they seem to coming round.

    1. Dallas says:

      Waiting for what? Coming around?

      By trying to have the case tried in juvie instead of going to the Governor’s office showing him that Brown is innocent?

  43. iamiam says:

    I don’t think I’m wrong Dallas. You don’t see for the stick stuck in your eye. Quoting extreme cases or past events is possible from all sides of an argument and usually leads to a heightening of tensions, a possible conflict or a dead end. It doesn’t serve to resolve much of anything but instead maybe quite the opposite.

    1. Dallas says:

      I could quote extreme cases all month long and never even touch the surface. They are reality………why do you wish to dismiss these kind of murderers? They are in abundance. Don’t you read or see them in the media almost every single day?

      THIS case is an extreme case. When someone is capable of murdering a expectant mother and the unborn child she carried by trying to blow her head off with a shotgun you don’t think that is extreme violence????

      List some of those not so extreme cases committed by murderers, I would be most interested in reading about a benign murder. Murder by its own definition clearly shows it is an act of extreme violence.

      1. abram says:

        Do you need a vacation Dallas? I’m not writing about the act; I’m writing about rehabilitation. That is why I mentioned Missouri’s model juvenile system.

  44. iamiam says:

    Missouri has the Cadillac of juvenile rehabilitation systems – what dreamers. They have the lowest recidivism rate in the country. Without the draconian methods used in Pa., which has the highest number of juveniles (approx. 470) life without parole of any country in the world.

  45. iamiam says:

    I would sooner help those that need it the most not the ones that need it the least.

    If you think I am a dreamer so be it because without them we’d still be in caves.
    Martin Luther King had a dream.
    Albert Einstein had a dream.
    Abe Lincoln had a dream.
    Many many good people had and lived their dream.

    “All successful people men and women are big dreamers. They imagine what their future could be, ideal in every respect, and then they work every day toward their distant vision, that goal or purpose.” Brian Tracy

    I Abram, am happy and proud to join the dreamers club.

    This is the end of my post.

    1. Dallas says:

      And all those great men believed in justice for all and the law of the land.

      May Kenzie and her baby boy receive the justice they deserve.

      1. abram says:

        And so do I and that is why I am here.

  46. abram says:

    iamiam is me abram. For some reason freedom of speech is being limited on a CBS web site.. Imagine that.

  47. abram says:

    Men are born soft and supple;
    dead, they are stiff and hard.
    Plants are born tender and pliant;
    dead, they are brittle and dry.

    Thus whoever is stiff and inflexible
    is a disciple of death.
    Whoever is soft and yielding
    is a disciple of life.

    The hard and stiff will be broken.
    The soft and supple will prevail. – Lao Tso

  48. Lex23 says:

    I am from the same town as Jordan and a lot of kids parents teach them to use guns way before the age of 11. It is a rural town where everyone hunts. There is nothing wrong with teaching your kid how to use a gun. People shouldn’t be so quick to judge just by what they hear. There could be more to this case than anyone realizes. Like y does the Houk family have no remorse for what happens to Jordan. This boy was a part of their family and they could care less. Obviously they had a problem with him for a while that they shed not an inch of sympathy for him. What if Kenzie did not treat Jordan right. No one knows. What if Kenzie’s daughter is lieing about seeing Jordan with the gun? No one can for sure say that Jordan did this. If anyone knows anything about the law, everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty and Jordan has NOT been proven guilty. There is absolutely no reason why he should have to assume guilt just to be trialed as a juvenile. This is a child we are talking about. He needs to be arrainged within the juvenile system not as an adult. He needs to be rehabilated not just thrown in a cell for 60+ years. That is just not morally right.

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